MdS Ultra Running Forum http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/ The Marathon des Sables MdS ultra running discussion forum en Mon, 06 Sep 2010 12:44:14 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/images/misc/rss.png MdS Ultra Running Forum http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/ mds friends and family http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2865-mds-friends-and-family&goto=newpost Sun, 05 Sep 2010 19:33:59 GMT my partner and sister want to come over to support me at the mds next year. we have heard that a tour operator organises specific packages for this... my partner and sister want to come over to support me at the mds next year. we have heard that a tour operator organises specific packages for this and arranges for them to be at the finish line. does anyone have any details of this? ]]> The Marathon des Sables General Discussion marty http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2865-mds-friends-and-family Sport Kilt http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2864-Sport-Kilt&goto=newpost Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:14:30 GMT Kilt Review - Hiking Kilt

When I first received the Hiking kilt through the post I couldn’t quite believe how light the box was and once I removed the kilt I was truly amazed! I knew it was going to be light but this was something else. The garment although designed with hiking in mind is ideally suited to running, the technical tartan fabric weighs no more than a pair of running tights or shorts.
It performed well in all weathers. During last weekends Eagle Isle 3 day ultra on the Isle of Mull we had some very mixed weather and terrain. Day 1 was through forest, moors and bogs and we experienced some very heavy rain showers. I was a bit worried about the kilt becoming water logged but it shed the rain very well and once the rain stopped dried extremely quickly. I fell over quite a few times in the bogs and the peaty mud wiped straight off keeping the sport kilt looking just as smart as it was when I first put it on.
Day 2 was the mountain day and was extremely windy, I was wearing a pair of sports boxers underneath which was just as well or there could have been a few times when I was caught out by a gust on the mountain side! But at no time did I feel too cold and when descending through heavy bracken off the hill the kilt protected my thighs and groin from scratches with out experiencing any damage itself.
The last day was some fast running on good trails along loch side paths and through forestry land down to the coast. It was really sunny and pretty warm for this time of year and through the sheltered forest sections was stiflingly hot at times. Usually in these conditions you can experience some pretty devastating chaffing to the groin and inner thighs but the sport kilt kept me light and airy and moving well.
To say I’m impressed is an understatement, not only did the kilt perform extremely well as a dedicated sporting garment but it also looks extremely stylish and was admired by everyone who saw it.

Available here,http://www.sportkilt.com/category/52/Hiking-Kilt.html ]]> Clothing Rab Lee http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2864-Sport-Kilt Hi-Tec V-lite Infinity Trail Running Shoes http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2863-Hi-Tec-V-lite-Infinity-Trail-Running-Shoes&goto=newpost Fri, 03 Sep 2010 09:05:43 GMT Hi-Tec V-lite Infinity Trail Running Shoes Thought I would give you a heads up on these new trail shoes. I have just been given a pair of Hi-Tec... Hi-Tec V-lite Infinity Trail Running Shoes

Thought I would give you a heads up on these new trail shoes. I have just been given a pair of Hi-Tec V-lite Infinity Trail Running Shoes to test out and review. The shoes are one of less than 100 seeding samples in the world.... Hi-tec have certainly put a lot of work into this shoe and first impressions are good, they are light and comfortable with a minimalistic design. A full report will follow in due course. Shoes should be out later in the year.

Sharky


.... and it seems that Hi-Tec have also come up with viral advert... that's quite funny... a new sport maybe?? Although I believe it could have originated in Brecon 2008?

http://www.hi-tec.com/liquid-mountaineering/
Attached Images
]]> Sharky http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2863-Hi-Tec-V-lite-Infinity-Trail-Running-Shoes GlassHouse 100miler http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2862-GlassHouse-100miler&goto=newpost Fri, 03 Sep 2010 08:52:04 GMT Hi guys, This is the event that I am having a go at next weekend. It is one of the top 4 ultras in Aus, (part of a Grand Slam) but is considered... Hi guys,

This is the event that I am having a go at next weekend. It is one of the top 4 ultras in Aus, (part of a Grand Slam) but is considered to be the easiest (an easy 100 miles???).

Dan is having a go at the 100K so it will be good to catch up with him again.

http://www.glasshousetrails.com.au/glasshouse100.htm ]]> Skin and Bone http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2862-GlassHouse-100miler Article: Born to Run - Without Injury! ~ An article by Paul Bateson http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2861-Article-Born-to-Run-Without-Injury!-An-article-by-Paul-Bateson&goto=newpost Thu, 02 Sep 2010 09:19:08 GMT You can view the page at http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/content.php?148-Born-to-Run-Without-Injury!-An-article-by-Paul-Bateson You can view the page at http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/conte...y-Paul-Bateson ]]> vBCms Comments Mike http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2861-Article-Born-to-Run-Without-Injury!-An-article-by-Paul-Bateson Born to Run - Without Injury! ~ An article by Paul Bateson http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2860-Born-to-Run-Without-Injury!-An-article-by-Paul-Bateson&goto=newpost Thu, 02 Sep 2010 09:18:07 GMT It has been interesting to read all the barefoot running debates which have been appearing thick and fast since Christopher McDougall’s excellent... It has been interesting to read all the barefoot running debates which have been appearing thick and fast since Christopher McDougall’s excellent book, ‘Born to Run’ hit the shelves last year. Although this book is regularly quoted as a major promotion for barefoot running if it is read correctly you find that only one person, ‘Barefoot Ted’ actually runs barefoot.

What the book is really about is ‘minimalist running’. Shoes have been worn for centuries, not as medical devices but as a normal, sensible way to protect your feet from rocks, thorns, glass, snake/insect bites etc., etc., even the featured Tarahumara Indians wear crude but effective sandals, the Romans, Ancient Greeks, Masai, native Americans etc., all wear sandals, moccasins or similar basic footwear.

Back in the 1970’s I was experimenting with footwear, adapting cheap, moulded sole football boots for use in cyclo-cross races, splitting a full sole on an awful, unstable New Balance Trail Buster, (via a cobbler friends skill) to produce a low profile very good fell shoe. I also tried fell racing in Nokia Trimmi wellies which worked very well, Walsh leather fell bootees which were perfect (and still in production) and back in 1999 I had calf length Indian moccasins made after deciding that these would be the answer for the Marathon des Sables, sand proof, natural, breathable, perfect fit. They worked perfectly well for the Apaches in dry, arid, sandy environments so why not me? All they required was a good insole and a glued on out sole but in the end I chose a lighter weight Teva Ricochet watersports shoe with pertex gaiters which worked perfectly.

In all my experiments, the common denominator has been low profile, close to ground, good feel and no artificial foot manipulation.

Meanwhile, back in the bigger, more popular road running world, statements like runners are either injured, recovering from injury or heading for injury seemed to indicate that flat hard surfaces, eg. tarmac and concrete pavements were the problem. Running shoes started to become more complex, more cushioning, more stability control, more pronation control, stability posts, gels, inserts, and springs! All things promoted and marketed to help runners avoid injury, all expensive and always with the advice that you are best buying 2 pairs in case they change the model, (which they do) and that you should chuck them after 500km or so in order to avoid injury!

All this marketing jargon about new shoes seems more applicable to motor vehicle technology than the function of human feet and legs but bullshit sells so it is nice to see that at last, Nike, who can probably be blamed for starting this over spec/sell more, trend seem to be leading the way back to basics.

Nikes latest statement, which appeared on Chris McDougall’s website reads;-
‘Our current approach of prescribing in-shoe pronation control systems on the basis of foot type is overly simplistic and potentially injurious’ or as the header says, ‘We’ve been talking a lot of crap, and selling it’.

It is also interesting that the head of Nikes elite training programme is the famous Alberto Salazar, who states that 85% of all runners who use running shoes, land on their heels. Eliminate the conditioned shoe and you eliminate the heel strike.

The problem now is that the propaganda is very well established in the minds of Podiatrists and sports medicine therapists, (sometimes because of favors and sponsorships received from shoe companies) and this will take some time to change. The shoe companies have copied the tactics of the drug companies and medical people tend to be in denial about how this has affected their objectivity. The realization that shoe marketing is misleading and potentially harmful will come gradually as sports participants figure out the truth.

I am not a podiatrist but my research and interest in the shoe/injury debate led me to a company based in New Zealand, Foot Science International Ltd., and a product called Formthotics™. Even better I was introduced to the inventor Charlie Baycroft whose basic shoe education came from the late, great Arthur Lydiard who was a shoemaker as well as one of the greatest running coaches ever. He always advocated a simple, slightly curved, flexible and not too spongy shoe.

Charlie’s mission is to promote the subtle but significant difference between biomechanical orthotics and shoe customization with Formthotics. The theory behind medical orthotics is to control abnormal motion that results from deformities of the feet and legs. Problem is that most people, especially athletes, do not have deformities in their feet and legs and also the pronation that is supposed to be controlled is a normal and necessary movement of the subtalar joint that enables the foot to be adaptive and shock absorbing.

Customizing (individualizing or personalizing) the fit of shoes with Formthotics is conforming the interface between the foot and the shoe to fit the foot on top and the shoe underneath. Formthotics are fitted into the shoe, heated for a few minutes and then you stand on them with the foot and leg in a balanced posture and alignment. Because they don’t fill in the area under the arch but rather support it through the sidewall of the shoe upper, the subtalar joint can still pronate naturally but this resistance against the arch increases in proportion to the amount of pronation. This mimics the way pressure on the sole of the foot increases as footprints are formed in resilient natural surfaces.



The theory behind Formthotics™ is that they are providing signals to the nervous system to enable the body to sense that stable contact has been made and the supinating muscles then fire to supinate the foot to neutral in midstance for stability and then into a more supinated posture for propulsion. This is the theory of total contact foot orthoses, which are essentially mimicking barefoot gait on natural surfaces.

The significant difference is that Formthotics™ are not trying to force the foot to obey the mechanical theory but are providing contact over the entire sole of the foot to encourage the foot and leg to function naturally. When wearing them people should feel more pressure or support under the arch but this should be perceived as comfortable. There are also changes in supination resistance (reduced if necessary), activation of the windlass mechanism (less resistance to dorsiflexion of the toes), postural stability (better balance on one foot with eyes closed) and forefoot stability (easier to rise up onto the toes of one foot).

Road running tends to place the same pattern of stress on the same tissue over and over again. The situation is even worse for people that tend to run the same roads at the same speeds day after day, (plodders seem to get a lot of problems). This is why coaches have long advocated changing pace, varying the terrain and even mixing in some sideways and backwards running on the road.

Trail runners generally suffer much less injury because the constantly changing inclinations, slopes, contours and textures of natural surfaces fully utilize the natural adaptability of the foot and leg and the magnitude and direction of the forces in the feet and legs keep changing.

Running off road also creates constantly changing signals into nervous system that stimulates and exercises the muscles that stabilize the joints of the foot and leg. The ‘technology’ (cushioning and control) that has been promoted in road shoes probably does very little to help with either the adaptive over-pronation of the foot (to adapt to the flat surface inside and under the shoe) and the ‘shock attenuation’ theory is probably a myth. However, softer midsoles might be providing some instability under the foot and they could be an unintended but beneficial effect for some people.

Cushioning and control of pronation are the two main fallacies. The structure of the shoe can prevent the forces of the foot from deforming the midsole on the medial side but cannot stop the foot from pronating inside the shoe to try to adapt to it. Cushioning can actually interfere with how the muscles of the foot and leg respond to the ground reaction forces during gait. People forget that the human foot performs very important sensory functions as well as mechanical ones. Extra cushioning is a bit like asking people to navigate in the dark. Without light and visual input they are disorientated and so the foot is ‘disoriented’ without adequate stimulation.

The important function of shoes is still protection from physical and thermal trauma. All research still supports the opinion that the normal foot and leg (and most people’s feet and legs are normal) functions best without shoes. However, even if barefoot, the foot still pronates more than, and for longer than, is desirable in order to try and adapt itself to paved surfaces. Barefoot running can increase the risks of trauma and infections and deprives the runner of the protective advantages of footwear.

The trend towards light, flexible shoes that protect the foot but do not interfere with its function is logical and putting Formthotics™ into such shoes is a good way to provide a more appropriate/natural interface between the sole of the foot and modern pavements.

So, to sum up, it looks like the well established fell and mountain shoe companies like Walsh and Inov8 have the right idea. Many of their competitors who offer low profile mountain running shoes also have some of their range fitting the bill but the majority of shoes produced for road running should be binned. Maybe the insole, which in many shoes is just a none-technical insert to tidy up the inside, should be seen as the most important part of the shoe.

Buying low profile mountain/fell shoes, removing the supplied insole and replacing with a properly fitted, Formthotic™ would seem to be the answer for so many runners with regular injury problems and an added attraction is that Formthotics™ are not expensive at around 50 euros a pair.

It certainly beats paying out 150-250 euros or more for a visit to a podiatrist and some uncomfortable inserts and you should also find that a good, basic, no frills trail, mountain or fell shoe costs much less than a hi-tec over spec’d road shoe which could be the real reason you are always missing races because of injury.

Finally, in the words of Dr. Charles Baycroft.

‘Human locomotion is complex but efficient. We could only have survived as a species through having excellent lower extremity structure and function. Without this we would have become extinct long before we started creating pavements in the 1800’s and invented ‘’high-tech’’ footwear in the 1970’s. I agree that we were born to run but not in mass produced shoes on modern paved surfaces and therein lie the problems. Human feet adapt to modern shoes and pavements by excessive subtalar pronation and because they cannot make proper contact with these surfaces this pronation persists until late stance and adversely affects the efficiency of gait.

Human feet and legs know how to work efficiently and do not need controlling shoes or plastic plates to force them to work in accordance with a theory of “normal biomechanics’’. However, they also need to be in contact with the surface that is similar to the natural surfaces of most of our history and therefore do not function efficiently in our modern environment.

The only way to restore a more natural interface between the natural foot and the unnatural modern environment is to create the person’s own footprint inside the shoe with Formthotics™ and that is why I invented them’.

R. Paul Bateson
Team Axarsport s.l.,
www.axarsport.com www.alandalus-ut.com

Note:
Much of my research has been helped and supported by Dr. Charles Baycroft the inventor of Formthotics. I also referred to http://medical.formthotics.co.nz. It is amazing that in the 1970’s a Dr. Peter Cavanagh did a gait analysis study for Nike which showed that the gait was better in bare feet than with the ‘motion control’ shoes. Nike must have been pretty confident that the results would favour the shoes because they did not have an agreement to prevent the publication of the study. There are also some interesting studies about shoes, cushioning and orthotics on www.biomechanigg.com the site of highly respected biomechanist Dr. Benno Nigg.
If you are interested in finding a local Formthotics supplier please email me; info@axarsport.com. ]]> Training Mike http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2860-Born-to-Run-Without-Injury!-An-article-by-Paul-Bateson Bulock Smithy 2010 http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2855-Bulock-Smithy-2010&goto=newpost Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:44:21 GMT Hey!

Im brand new to the whole scene of marathons/ultra's, so i apologise if this comes under the wrong section!

I was wondering if anyone here was doing the bullock smithy this weekend?
This is my first ultra-marathon im taking part in, but im hoping to start working my way into them more often/build up a better pace and was wondering if there was any tips people would mention for this race/ultraq marathonning in general!?

Yours,

John ]]> johns35 http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2855-Bulock-Smithy-2010 Article: S2S Ultra - 14th November, 28 miles, Kinlochleven – Tyndrum http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2854-Article-S2S-Ultra-14th-November-28-miles-Kinlochleven-–-Tyndrum&goto=newpost Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:39:54 GMT You can view the page at http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/content.php?147-S2S-Ultra-14th-November-28-miles-Kinlochleven-–-Tyndrum You can view the page at http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/conte...even-–-Tyndrum ]]> vBCms Comments Mike http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2854-Article-S2S-Ultra-14th-November-28-miles-Kinlochleven-–-Tyndrum S2S Ultra - 14th November, 28 miles, Kinlochleven – Tyndrum http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2853-S2S-Ultra-14th-November-28-miles-Kinlochleven-–-Tyndrum&goto=newpost Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:39:20 GMT Andrew Murray is going to be running for 85 consecutive days, from John O'Groats to the Sahara Desert to raise funds and awareness of the great work the Yamaa Trust does in Mongolia.

The Scotland2Sahara Ultra will be run from Kinlochleven to Tyndrum along the northern part of the stunning West Highland Way.

There's options for a shorter run event and also walkers are welcome too. All entrants will get a unique t-shirt and medal.

To enter or read more about it, CLICK HERE

To find out more about Andrew's incredible challenge, check out his website www.scotland2sahara.com. ]]> Mike http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2853-S2S-Ultra-14th-November-28-miles-Kinlochleven-–-Tyndrum UTMB cancelled mid-race! http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2852-UTMB-cancelled-mid-race!&goto=newpost Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:05:27 GMT Not sure whether anyone has seen but the UTMB has just been cancelled 4hrs and 15mins into the race due to a mudslide...apparently no-one is hurt but... Not sure whether anyone has seen but the UTMB has just been cancelled 4hrs and 15mins into the race due to a mudslide...apparently no-one is hurt but looks like the race will not be restarted and it is chaos as no-one knows what is going on out there. There is a press conference in an hour or so to relay more details.

I know that Mimi was doing this and a few others...absolutely gutted for them and cannot even begin to imagine how they are all feeling right now bollox ]]> Giggsy http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2852-UTMB-cancelled-mid-race! The Leadville 100 - The Highs and Lows of an Ultra at Altitude! http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2851-The-Leadville-100-The-Highs-and-Lows-of-an-Ultra-at-Altitude!&goto=newpost Fri, 27 Aug 2010 16:34:46 GMT You can view the page at http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/content.php?146-The-Leadville-100-The-Highs-and-Lows-of-an-Ultra-at-Altitude! You can view the page at http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/conte...a-at-Altitude! ]]> vBCms Comments Giggsy http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2851-The-Leadville-100-The-Highs-and-Lows-of-an-Ultra-at-Altitude! MdS Stuff http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2850-MdS-Stuff&goto=newpost Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:22:05 GMT I have 2 venom pumps 2 space blankets 1 MdS organisation Jacket. Black. Unworn. Medium but rather baggy so could be medium/large. Rarish. 4... I have

2 venom pumps
2 space blankets
1 MdS organisation Jacket. Black. Unworn. Medium but rather baggy so could be medium/large. Rarish.
4 2010 Road Books. Three very good condition. One has little bit of writing on two pages.
2 2009 Road Books. Very good condition but dont bare much resemblance to actual course taken due to some rain that year.

Offered here before putting on Ebay.

PM me if interested. ]]> Marketplace http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2850-MdS-Stuff MDS training camp - filling up fast! http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2849-MDS-training-camp-filling-up-fast!&goto=newpost Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:13:25 GMT Hi everyone - just in case you haven't seen news about our training camp in October, I thought I'd post the link here MDS Training, as places are limited.

We've got expert speakers, some great training routes, and the chance to try specialist kit and equipment... so if you want the opportunity to get some really relevant advice and guidance from people who've "been there and done it", look no further!

Amanda@Racekit ]]> The Marathon des Sables General Discussion amanda_h http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2849-MDS-training-camp-filling-up-fast! Facebook http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2848-Facebook&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:14:14 GMT I've finally created a Sandbaggers page on facebook. You can find it here if you fancy popping in...

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/San...5902008?ref=ts ]]> The Gobi Challenge apollo http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2848-Facebook Survival of the fittest http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2847-Survival-of-the-fittest&goto=newpost Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:23:34 GMT Any body doing these this year, http://www.mhsurvival.co.uk/
think I'll be doing the Edinburgh one ]]> Rab Lee http://www.themds.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?2847-Survival-of-the-fittest